Random FMIC information with a little turbo info mixed in.....

[RedEvoVII]

For the Recirculate on an Evo:
I am living in Germany, so i have to have an closed Exhaust system.
I am running an BR GT35R with the Cast header, so i modified the Dump tupe.

I am feeding the dump back into the exhaust after the Oil Pan, round about 28 inches after the Turbine wheel. No probs to make it that way, using the BR provided Dump tube. Slip on design for the Dump, so no probs with installing the Downpipe ( Its an Invidia 3" SS )
I believe that i done it in a way David would do it.
Pro is that the Dump goes into the Exhaust in a very flat angle, not giving any backpressure back to the Turbo.
I am running from 24 psi Boost up to 41 psi, no probs with Boost creep or loosing power ( against open dump )

here are a few pics:

Dump_1.JPG

Dump_1 (4).JPG

Dump_1 (3).JPG

Dump_1 (2).JPG

For Mild Steel Flanges: if you use Mild Steel, let them go through the first plating processes for Chrome ( Copper and nickel plating ). That looks better, has no bad effects, but stops rust and its cheap.

Steffen

[David Buschur]

Steffen, the way you tapped the dumptube back in looks excellent, it's hard to see what kind of angle is under the wrap but if it's how it appears it is excellent.

ETS, when you do your testing make sure you are monitoring before and after turbine housing back pressure, we've already done it, you'll be surprised what you learn............there I go opening my big mouth again

[ifarted2]

** ETS Posting Again **

Just wanted to say we are really surprised to see that we were not the topic of conversation in here today. Most of you said your piece and continuned on, this is way different than on Evom. We may not always be on here, but if there are any questions, comments or concerns (good or bad) we are listening.

David, we take your comments and advice seriously, as there is no arguing with your tack record of performance. We will inevitably have some conflicting beliefs as we too need to see it for ourselves to change our minds on things we believe in, but when you say, you've been there, done that, we are listening.

That said, we are impressed on how we have been treated in here, I think it is mainly because this forum does not have all the hype that others do, but there is a place for everything, and everyone.

Sooner or later we know this thread will be back on topic!

Thanks
ETS

[vwjeff]

** vwjeff Posting Again **

ETS just cant compare to Buschurs quality, craftsmanship or design man BOTTOM LINE.

I am not swinging here, I just stating the truth

This is Buschurs forum and nobody cares about what ETS is saying on EvoM. We are all (99% of us) Buschur customers and ALWAYS will be

[ifarted2]

** vwjeff Posting Again **

ETS just cant compare to Buschurs quality, craftsmanship or design man BOTTOM LINE.

I am not swinging here, I just stating the truth

This is Buschurs forum and nobody cares about what ETS is saying on EvoM. We are all (99% of us) Buschur customers and ALWAYS will be

Just becuase your comparing there bottom of the line budget kit doesn't mean that ETS cant produce awesome stuff. My kits is absolutely gorgeous. JR and crew did everything in-house. There Supra kits Titan sells are top notch. If you pay the extra $$$ you will get top notch SS materials. WHats nice is you can call them and they can do whatever you want and have it to you with-in a week. Very hard to fine elsewhere. Ron's work (Buschurs)is awesome also his manifolds shows the time he takes on each one

[SPIN2GST]

** vwjeff Posting Again **

LOL that is the funniest thing I have read all day!

[ifarted2]

**vwjeff Posting Again **

Once Again ETS/Paul... ETS just cant compare to Buschurs quality, craftsmanship or design man BOTTOM LINE.

[Ipecac]

your right jeff. i live in Portland and have dealt with some of the dsm shops around here and the workmanship sucks. i had too many problems. ill pay the shipping and have it sent across the states so i can have buschur parts.

[Danimal]

** not vwjeff posting **

I'm still thankful for the polite tone and up front attitude I am seeing from ETS and like that they are saying they want input from David. I hope they don't mind a little from a guy who buys parts as well.

I made the comment that I liked that you wanted to produce value parts at prices that more folks could afford. I do not disagree with that line of thinking and think that if a person were to make some kits that made 95% of the power of a top line Buschur kit made for 70% of the cost they would make a lot of folks very happy and fill a need in the community. Guys who don't track or want every last hp but like to cruise around in a more personalized car that can give them a thrill now and them would flock to the kit.

Then I go over to your web site for the very first time and find that the cost of your kits seem to be every bit as high and in some cases seem to be higher than a Buschur kit. As I read it I can buy a ...

ETS 35r for about $3700.00 (no options)

or a...

Buschur 35r for about $3900.00

or a...

Buschur HTA35r for $4300.00

Now I admit that I have only seen one example of your kits but I am having trouble figuring out how the difference is only worth $200. Thats one tire for a track day... Its less than what I waste on a set of front brake pads. Or for $600 more I can have the big daddy!

In short, I'm not sure your product is one I would consider a value given the price vs. features or lack there of.

The same extends to your FMIC.

I have yet to see a FMIC whos numbers are better than the Buschur Race FMIC. It would cost me $970 for the Core and pipes needed.

To get a core of even similar size from you it would cost me $1070!!!

If I were to try to get by with your medium size FMIC it would still cost me $950 and I am having a lot of trouble thinking that it will perform as well as one of Davids race cores.

In short I know you want to provide a quality part at a value price but I'm not sure if I see that right now. Not a slam, not trying to be a dick, just letting you know why I would not consider investing any money in any of your parts at this point in time. Not even a new Kimbo FMIC.

[ifarted2]

** not vwjeff posting **

I'm still thankful for the polite tone and up front attitude I am seeing from ETS and like that they are saying they want input from David. I hope they don't mind a little from a guy who buys parts as well.

I made the comment that I liked that you wanted to produce value parts at prices that more folks could afford. I do not disagree with that line of thinking and think that if a person were to make some kits that made 95% of the power of a top line Buschur kit made for 70% of the cost they would make a lot of folks very happy and fill a need in the community. Guys who don't track or want every last hp but like to cruise around in a more personalized car that can give them a thrill now and them would flock to the kit.

Then I go over to your web site for the very first time and find that the cost of your kits seem to be every bit as high and in some cases seem to be higher than a Buschur kit. As I read it I can buy a ...

ETS 35r for about $3700.00 (no options)

or a...

Buschur 35r for about $3900.00

or a...

Buschur HTA35r for $4300.00

Now I admit that I have only seen one example of your kits but I am having trouble figuring out how the difference is only worth $200. Thats one tire for a track day... Its less than what I waste on a set of front brake pads. Or for $600 more I can have the big daddy!

In short, I'm not sure your product is one I would consider a value given the price vs. features or lack there of.

The same extends to your FMIC.

I have yet to see a FMIC whos numbers are better than the Buschur Race FMIC. It would cost me $970 for the Core and pipes needed.

To get a core of even similar size from you it would cost me $1070!!!

If I were to try to get by with your medium size FMIC it would still cost me $950 and I am having a lot of trouble thinking that it will perform as well as one of Davids race cores.

In short I know you want to provide a quality part at a value price but I'm not sure if I see that right now. Not a slam, not trying to be a dick, just letting you know why I would not consider investing any money in any of your parts at this point in time. Not even a new Kimbo FMIC.

I take offense to the Kimbo statement!

[ifarted2]

** ETS Again **



The ETS t3 turbo kit is ;
• $3495 Base
• +$100 SS Flanges
• +$200 35R Turbo
------------------------------
$3795 total,


The ETS EVO Intercooler
$829 Base
+$240 4” Upgrade
+$200 SS Upgrade
--------------------------
$1269 Total

Buschur Turbo Kit
$3895 Price
No Lower Pipe
No Intake
No Filter
-------------------------
$3895 Total

Buschur Race Intercoler
$759 Race Intercooler
+$270 Lower Pipe for Race IC
+$275 Upper Piping
----------------------------------------
$1304 Total



We feel that with our kits you do get you moneys worth. You get a complete kit that requires no extra parts, even if the car is bone stock.

The Buschur kit is also complete for people following the Buschur upgrade route, or for people that already have upgrades on their vehicle. Buschurs kits draw on his 19 years of racing, his proven performance in 7,8,9,10,11,12 sec. cars, and flat out kicking ass over the years. We will never say that Buschurs performance record is anything but impressive.

As we don’t have that kind of history, we try to supply more complete kits for a given amount of money. We also supply very good customer service, and promptness. We feel we are qualified to sell turbo kits and intercooler kits, We have experience with 7,8,9,10,11,12 sec cars and we have staff with professional backgrounds in engineering and manufacturing.

This thread can go no, and on. We are fine with you guys stating what you feel. If we feel that it is malicious or un-factual then we will pipe up otherwise, we would like to let Davids’ forums stay on his subject matter. We realize that we are in somebody else’s house, and we are trying to be respectful as possible.

[dd_man]

Daves kits do have a major advantage...they are track and street proven

[sbstar]

David I love this testing...The whole ETS vs. Buschur thing seems to be handled very well in this thread as well. It's nice to see people having a disagreement without it getting out of hand (as it appears it did on EVOM).

Anyways there is a common belief that most ebay fmic kits are junk, and I agree with that. However, at the same time there seems to be a strong following for the 2g SSAC FMIC kit from ebay that sells from anywhere between 250 and 350 depending on where you pick it up on ebay. I'm not a believer, however, I believe it would be beneficial if we got some real numbers on this IC. I know you've listed "ebay" intercoolers in this thread but I'm looking for this specific fmic tested. I know you can't just run out and get one to test but if you come across one, or if you have tested one that you know to be this specific kit then I would appreciate the numbers.

EDIT: I did find one set of numbers on Tuners where a guy claimed it stayed within 4* Celcius of the outside air temp, this was on an HX35 turbo @26psi. Measuring IAT's at the TB...4* celcius converts to about 40 degrees different in fehrenheit...Can't validate any of that though...

[David Buschur]

The link you provided to the ETD intercooler is the same POS I used that wouldn't keep an intercooler coupling on it.

Reporting no problems just means someone isn't smart enough to log inlet/outlet temps and pressure drops. Reporting no problems means if you are dumb enough to buy a piece of shit to put on your car you surely aren't smart enough to do any testing and admit that you are stupid.

[Lonnie gandee]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt...rformance.html

If you scroll down to the bottom of this thread.... This guy claims to be making 400whp, on a mustang dyno. 25 psi on pump gas!!

His sig, states he is using a SSAC fmic.

Ithink he's full of sh-t , but i cant post in that forum yet.....

He dont even state what turbo he's using either.....

[Spoolin0nYou]

The link you provided to the ETD intercooler is the same POS I used that wouldn't keep an intercooler coupling on it.

Reporting no problems just means someone isn't smart enough to log inlet/outlet temps and pressure drops. Reporting no problems means if you are dumb enough to buy a piece of shit to put on your car you surely aren't smart enough to do any testing and admit that you are stupid.

Hey, I was just saying...

I don't plan on buying any other FMIC than one that comes from your shop. I've been there, and seen it...and seeing is believing.

[wishihadatalon]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt...rformance.html

If you scroll down to the bottom of this thread.... This guy claims to be making 400whp, on a mustang dyno. 25 psi on pump gas!!

His sig, states he is using a SSAC fmic.

Ithink he's full of sh-t , but i cant post in that forum yet.....

He dont even state what turbo he's using either.....

You too

[Lonnie gandee]

You too

He claims he talking about another guy. -Greddy97gst-

I looked at his profile, and this guy is rockin 550' and a big16.

And he's making 404whp, on pump gas, at 25psi, with that shitty i/c.

My fp green wasnt even pushin that with 110 octane on 21 psi. And a whole lot of other mods.

[wishihadatalon]

He claims he talking about another guy. -Greddy97gst-

I looked at his profile, and this guy is rockin 550' and a big16.

And he's making 404whp, on pump gas, at 25psi, with that shitty i/c.

My fp green wasnt even pushin that with 110 octane on 21 psi. And a whole lot of other mods.

I find it funny that he pretty much had that thread to call me out. He used posts that I made in another thread for it, and then continued to give one sided info.

[sbstar]

Most of you know Kiggly...auto fwd drag car...

The EBAY generic intercoolers have reasonable pressure drop, but cool very poorly.

The super-cheap part that was on my car at the conclusion of last season was the biggest EBAY core, 24x12x4 core size. I saw:

8.99 at 153mph at 35psi pass:
92F start of pass, about 20F above ambient
145F end of pass
~2.5psi drop from turbo outlet to intake plenum w/2.5" piping and stock 60mm TB, 2.3L @ 8500rpm

A friend's car with a similar-sized Garrett core hangs out around 5-10F above ambient and even at 44psi sees less than 10F temperature rise during a pass. We are using the same (GM) air temperature sensors. I'm switching over to one of the Garrett cores over the winter.

Yes, you can run fast on the EBAY stuff. You can also do a lot better with better stuff. You get what you pay for here.

Kevin

Again not trying to hijack this thread David, just throwing the info in here as it seems somewhat relevant.