Random FMIC information with a little turbo info mixed in.....

[David Buschur]

With all the posts going back and forth in this thread it is going to become impossible (atleast difficult) to actually find any useful information in the future.

Please attempt to keep the jibba jabba to a minimum. Thanks.

BTW, Kiggly's a smart guy, obviously, he agrees with me!

[vwjeff]

With all the posts going back and forth in this thread it is going to become impossible (atleast difficult) to actually find any useful information in the future.

Please attempt to keep the jibba jabba to a minimum. Thanks.

BTW, Kiggly's a smart guy, obviously, he agrees with me!

Sorry Dave, but I gotta do this. Figured ifart2 would see it here.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...=311682&page=4

Paul like I said before my post was deleted.

I dont care if NASA developed or uses that ricey ass muffler on the space shuttle. Dave's system is provin to work at 700whp, and run mid 9's at 150+... there is my contribution to the Evo community buddy

Sure is sad to see a Daily Driven Evo making 300+ less whp with a 35r, to be just as fast as your gutted, slicked 42r race car

So your ETS buddy can go ahead and rock out his stupid 3.5 exhaust on his stock turbo'ed VIII, cause we all know how sweet he will be in the Autozone parking lot
when he's standing around talking about how big his can is.

Dave when I bring my car to you in January I want your 3.5in system (I am not kidding either) cause it seems like the thing to do these days. We can test your 3in system to the 3.5

[David Buschur]

Actually I am in the process (before the EVOm crap even) of testing my car and one of the things I wanted to do back to back was our 3" and the 3.5". I just needed a lift to fab it all up last week.

As I said over in that worthless thread on EVOm, we've built about (15) 3.5" exhaust so far. We have done them one off each time and have never taken the time to build a fixture as each car we've done them on was a little different.

Now I am going to build it for my car and they will all be built in V-band form only. I'd venture to guess that with the power my car is producing now it could very well gain some HP with the 3.5". The guy on EVOm with the basically stock EVO though..........wasted his money.

That muffler that ETS is using I don't know anything about. I do know that the muffler we use is 100% 304 grade stainless including the wool packing inside of it. I also know the company that builds them for us builds some wicked stuff for some very high end racing. He convinced me he could build us the best muffler for weight/sound/power and he came through.

Anyway, I'll post up the testing of the 3.5" stuff when I get it done. Should be this week for sure.

[David Buschur]

Starting AIT's 68 degrees
Ending AIT's 75 degrees
Peak boost 30.02 psi
20 psi at 4266 rpm

As I suspected from this kit with the unported compressor cover there was some very noticable compressor surge from 4400 rpm to 4900 rpm.

[David Buschur]

I don't know how I missed it but there is a BUNCH of wrong information in post #70.

To clear some things up. IF you are doing a turbo kit you should already have a FMIC, upper and lower i/c pipes. Including those in a turbo kit is stupid as most people should have already bought them long before they got to a turbo upgrade.

So, with that said.

ETS's kit does NOT include a new slim line engine fan. Add $110 to their kit price.

Our turbo kit DOES come with a lower i/c pipe that works with most FMIC kits on the market.

Including an upper pipe in a turbo kit or FMIC kit is rediculous, an upper i/c pipe should be one of the first things done before a turbo kit for sure.

Our kit is 100% stainless on the header, 02 housing, dumptube, upper and lower i/c pipes etc., no need to ask for it to be upgraded, it was done the first time.

This makes each price that ETS quoted higher than our prices.

Also would like to note that the compressor cover we use on our turbos are all ported shrouds to eliminate compressor surge, they are substantially more expensive than the unported shroud ETS uses. The ETS kit I just dyno'd surged for over 500 rpm.

[David Buschur]

Starting AIT, 53.60 degrees
Ending AIT, 95 degrees
Peak boost 25.34
20 psi at 3953 rpm

[Rogue]

Going throught all the results, is it just me, or do the strokers seem to have a lot lower AIT's period, with respect to their 2.0 conterparts with the same mods/IC.

[David Buschur]

I would say it's just you since that last chart has a 41 degree increase at only 25 psi of boost...........

[David Buschur]

Sometimes these threads slip my mind. I don't recall anymore new FMIC's that I have tested lately.

[joedr]

Thanks for the reply David! I was curious because last test was a few months back.

Sometimes these threads slip my mind. I don't recall anymore new FMIC's that I have tested lately.

[David Buschur]

Hello all. Well I took a few weeks off on my RS while we were working on the EVO X.

In the meantime we had built some new parts for it as I wanted to continue the testing on the car.

Here are some quick points I want to touch on. First off I have caught some misc. flack here and there from some guys who "think they are in the know" about our Deluxe FMIC design, which would also spill over to our DSM FMIC design as they are the same. This particular design I am referring to has the inlet (coming from the turbo to the intercooler) on the face of the inlet tank. So the inlet faces the engine, rather than coming in from the end. Little did these critics know that we have tested this design in the past and found it to change nothing. I did not have the proof of this as we didn't save logs/dyno graphs of this testing in the past as it was for shop R&D and not really public knowledge.

Anyway, when I built the new headers for my RS I dropped the turbo low enough to make it possible to run the turbo directly into the face of the intercooler. This is how our black drag EVO is and that was the last time we had conducted testing such as this (again, with no saved logs/dyno plots).

Today I set out to test 3 things. First was the new header I built with shorter runners than the others I had built. 2nd was the new FMIC with the inlet on the face of the intercooler and the last was a full 3" upper i/c pipe with 3" outlet on the intercooler.

Here is a print out of the dyno runs with an explanation of what you are looking at and the stats of the testing for each run:



Test #1 is my baseline run with the new header. This is with our Race FMIC kit, just like we sell. 2.5" inlet outlet and our lower i/c pipe that is shaped like a candy cane. 2.5" upper i/c pipe.

639 whp and 504 ft lbs of torque
20 psi was reached at 4895 rpm
33.68 psi was peak boost reached at 5648 rpm
Boost at 8,000 rpm was 31.54 psi
AIT increase was 1.8 degrees
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test #2 is my second test. We changed the Race FMIC to the inlet on the face and a 3" outlet. We then used a 3" to 2.5" coupling on the outlet so the outlet size stayed the same, 2.5" upper i/c pipe.

645 whp and 506 ft lbs of torque
20 psi was reached at 4914 rpm
34.18 psi was peak boost reached at 5754 rpm
Boost at 8,000 rpm was 31.52 psi
AIT increase was 1.8 degrees
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test #3 is my last test. We changed the upper i/c pipe to a full 3" pipe, at this point the FMIC also had a full 3" outlet and it all matched up to 3" throttle body.

638 whp and 500 ft lbs of torque
20 psi was reached at 4973 rpm
33.74 psi was peak boost reached at 6012 rpm
Boost at 8,000 rpm was 32.13 psi
AIT increase was 3.6 degrees
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I sit here and wonder why I post these results and development with all the critics out there trying to outrun us or make more power etc. I really have no idea and it truly becomes harder and harder to press the enter button with each new test.

As you can see the dyno charts even with all these changes make the testing darn near a draw on the results. The numbers from best to worse only vary by 7 whp and 6 ft lbs of torque.

Also, NO part of the tuning was touched for any of these and there was NO change to the boost controller. I also did two runs for each test and took the highest of each of the two pulls for the comparison. 7 whp was the largest difference on any two baseline pulls.

Before anyone asks what will end up on my car. I am going to use our Race FMIC with the face entry inlet and a 2.5" outlet and our standard 2.5" upper i/c pipe.

[David Buschur]

OK, we didn't actually destroy the dyno but he did just destroy every single other record we have set here on this dyno with a 35r based turbo.

The car is absolutely re-freakin-diculous!!

We had 9sec9's (Tom's) car here for the last three weeks as most of you know. He's been hanging out here breaking personal bests and other records as we go.

After breaking the stock appearing turbo record last week we quickly put on my turbo, the FS635, and on one good clean pass his car ran 9.20 at 147.5 mph on it. The car made 675 whp and 504 ft lbs at 42 psi of boost.

We installed the new HTA86 mm turbo yesterday when it showed up here overnight from Robert at Forced Performance.

Today at the same 42 psi of boost the car was loaded back on the dyno and ran again. It made an absolutely amazing 724 whp and 536 ft lbs of torque.

To put this into perspective, my RS made only 684 whp and ran a 9.04 at 159 mph.

Today is quite a bit better air and cooler than the last time the car was on the dyno. When we dyno'd the FS635 we had intake air temps starting at 91 and going up to 95 degrees for the pull. Today was about as good as you can ask for and the starting air temps were 51 going up to 52 degrees.

We are loading the car now to head to the track. We are running at D42 tonight, not the safest place to run a car that is this quick but Trent says he's up for it.

If all goes well and we meet our goals we are going to be posting about a pass the 8's and my guess is it will run over 160 mph.

Here is a dyno comparison of both turbos.



Have a great weekend everyone. We are hoping for a great night.

[turbotom20g]

Dave if possible could you test out the DVDTFAB FMIC intercooler, they seem to have a really good one and they were selling only for 2gs but now they are selling them as a core as well. I'm just curious to see what the heat range are on them because it really looks like a good engineered FMIC.

[David Buschur]

The only testing I will do is if I happen to tune a part on the dyno. I am not chasing down parts to test. If you want a bad ass intercooler for your 2g, we've got them and I have logs to prove it.

[David Buschur]

The torque curve on this car is impressive for sure. The car goes over 400 ft lbs at 5800 rpm and stays there until 8,000 rpm. 375 ft lbs at 4800 rpm.

Car was tuned on straight 93 octane, unknown gas station. The car belongs to Brian B. In 2008 the car ran a 10.3 with 542 whp on pump gas. That was on the HTA82 turbo. Only change is the HTA86.

The car did suffer a turbo failure that pumped 4 quarts of oil into the intercooler/intake and back through the engine. I believe some of that residue is left in the intercooler still as the AIT's were climbing much higher than usual.

Spool up specs, 4th gear pull:

20.19 psi at 4773 rpm
31.23 peak boost during the pull
30.70 psi of boost at 8,000 rpm


Starting intake air temp, 44.6 degrees at 2700 rpm
Ending intake air temp, 60.80 degrees at 8,000 rpm

[itzwolf]

Dave,

It's been a while since I've gone through this thread but correct me if I am wrong but has the BFIC been tested? I'm torn between the standard Race FMIC and the newer BFIC. I'd really like to see some data on this. I live in Florida so I am leaning more toward the BFIC but dont want to have to hack the front facia to much. As there been information posted exactly whats needed to be shaved off?

Thanks!

[David Buschur]

Yes, it's been tested back-to-back with the Race. It was a toss up on the dyno. Very hard to measure one way or the other which was working better.

[manley57]

The only testing I will do is if I happen to tune a part on the dyno. I am not chasing down parts to test. If you want a bad ass intercooler for your 2g, we've got them and I have logs to prove it.

Thats a fact, their 2G FMIC is the one to own!

[itzwolf]

Yes, it's been tested back-to-back with the Race. It was a toss up on the dyno. Very hard to measure one way or the other which was working better.

Dave,

Think you could post some log information for the BFIC including turbo size, boost level, when it reached 20psi, engine size, and temperature increase like you have in the past for other intercoolers you’ve tested? Like I said I am leaning toward the BFIC but if it’s really not necessary I may go with the regular Race FMIC. I currently have a “37r” turbo and have been thinking of going with a 6262 or 6765 as an upgrade, and if I ever decide to go bigger than that want this to be my last intercooler.

As soon as some extra funds become available I will be ordering one, that’s a guarantee!

[David Buschur]

I don't have any logs/dyno graphs, I don't think I kept them. If you do a search over on EVOm you may be able to find the test but I'm not sure I posted any of it. The test was virtually identical. For reference, I run our standard Race FMIC on the Bad Bish and Project White. While the BFIC works killer and acts as a better heat soak, it does not cool back off quite as quickly.